Inside PR Special Edition – Discussion with Andrew Laing – Thursday, June 29, 2006


Show Notes

Picture1.jpg In this Inside PR Special Edition, Terry and David have a half-hour discussion with Andrew Laing, the President of Cormex Research.

00:12 Terry and David talk about their guest Andrew Laing and measurement.

01:42 Andrew Laing discusses his company, Cormex Research.

04:10 Andrew talks about how Cormex Research was founded.

05:19 David asks Andrew what makes Cormex Research stand out from the competition.

09:08 Terry talks about the output of a program and the outcome of a program – he thinks too many in the PR world focus on output rather than outcome.

12:10 Andrew brings up ROI and thinks PR people use it incorrectly.

13:39 David brings up Marketing Mix, and asks for Andrew’s thoughts on it.

15:08 David brings up advertising and MRP, which he contributes to for the CPRS.

18:30 Andrew brings up the issue of the multiplier to compare PR to advertising value.

20:30 David talks about the inequality of PR and advertising, and talks about the value of word of mouth and “talk” value.

23:30 Andrew believes that technology is not where advances need to be made. He thinks methodology is more important than technology.

24:40 Andrew talks about Cormex and their monitoring of social media.

28:00 Andrew closes by talking about what he invites his clients to think about.

28:48 Terry thanks Andrew and ends their discussion.

29:18 David and Terry go into the costs of measurement after their discussion with Andrew.

33:00 Terry invites listener comments and closes the show.

Background on Andrew Laing

Over the last fifteen years, Andrew has built Cormex into Canada’s leading media analysis company. As a pioneer in introducing standards and measures for public relations and communications in this country, Andrew has developed ongoing media measurement studies for hundreds of Canada’s top organizations. His current client list forms a Who’s Who of the country’s leading private, public and non-profit organizations, including BCE, RBC Royal Bank, Suncor, Health Canada, the University of Toronto, CBC, Ontario Power Generation, Mackenzie Financial, Scotiabank, Toronto Sick Kids Hospital, Ontario Teachers’ Pension Plan, Heart and Stroke Foundation, and many others.

Andrew holds a B.A. from the University of King’s College, an M.B.A. from Royal Roads University and is currently completing his Ph.D. (ABD) in communications studies from York University. Andrew is a frequent speaker, writer and collaborator on media research in Canada and abroad.

Opening and closing music by Alamantra on the Podsafe Music Network. As always, Roger Dey is our voice-over guru.

We’re number 1 on Pubsub

I’ve never really understood how the PubSub PR list actually works/worked, but I did know that it felt better to be higher up the list than lower.
Now, there has been lots of talk of PubSub’s financial problems lately and there is the fact the list hasn’t been updated since June 20th, but none of that negates the fact that for a brief, shining moment the Inside PR blog was at the top of the list.

We’re proud to be number 1…whatever it means. (If anyone knows, please tell us!)


Audio comment: Eric Schwartzman on IPR #13


The Spinfluencer, Eric Schwartzman, weighs in on the discussion we had about the branding of social media expertise within agencies.

If you haven’t checked out Eric’s “On the Record…Online” podcast, you don’t know what you’re missing. He has had some amazing interviews with some very interesting media and PR people.

Inside PR #13 – Monday, June 26, 2006


Well, IPR #13 is closer to 30 minutes than we were last week, but at just over 38 minutes, we’re still over our half-hour target. With a load of comments and news items this week, we were bound to go long. Let us know what you think about the length of the show. Our instinct is to aim for 30 minutes but to let the content itself be the final arbiter. We’d be grateful for your views on the matter.

On to IPR #13. This week our discussion topic in the latter part of the show is whether or not PR firms should separately brand their social media expertise as High Road Communications announced this week they would.

You can listen to the show with the player above or download or subscribe with the links in the show blog’s sidebar.

Show Notes:

00:27 David Jones opens the show and invites comments to our comment line 206-600-4741, the IPR show blog, or to [email protected].

01:31 David introduces a comment from Glen Myles in Singapore about a new podcast called The Panel.

03:35 Terry reads a comment from Erik Deutsch a principal of the ExcelPR Group in Los Angeles.

04:25 Terry sets up an audio comment from Bryan Person who has recently started a great PR podcast called New Comm Road.

09:28 David introduces an audio comment from Terry’s colleague Joseph Thornley of the ProPR blog.

12:26 Terry talks briefly about David Phillips and his interesting approach to lecturing his students on social media. Check out his podcast/blog/lecture.

13:48 David and Terry discuss McMaster University‘s new Masters in Communications Management starting this fall. Terry reports briefly on his visit to Queen’s University and his meeting with the Associate Dean of the MBA program about more effectively integrating communications/PR in the curriculum.

17:17 Terry talks about the Podcasters Across Borders conference in Kingston where he recorded his end of IPR #13 via Skype.

20:05 Terry notes that C.C. Chapman could not make it to Podcasters Across Borders so the much anticipated Inside PRManaging the Gray mashup will have to wait, but we will do it sometime.

20:52 Terry mentions that Thornley Fallis Communications has a new blog called PR Girlz written by a number of the women at TFC. Welcome to the blogosphere.

21:21 David and Terry tackle the show’s major topic of discussion: High Road Communications‘ decision to brand their social media expertise separately as Vox. There was some controversy in the blogosphere about using the name Vox as it is already used by another social media firm. Debate ensues.

32:52 Terry introduces Chris Clarke’s regular segment chronicling his transition from PR student to agency account coordinator.

36:41 Terry invites comments on the show’s length or on any other topic to the Inside PR blog or to [email protected].

Intro music: Our theme music is Streetwalker by CJacks and is from the Podsafe Music Network; Roger Dey is our announcer.

Inside PR audio comment: Joe Thornley on Crispy News


Joe Thornley has dropped in with an audio comment to give us his take on Constantin Basturea‘s latest initiative, Crispy News.
I had a look at the site recently and thought it was another interesting way to skim through the latest and greatest new posts in the PR blogosphere.

If you don’t know Constantin, he’s the volunteer behind The New PR Wiki and the Pub Sub PR Community list and now this. Does he ever sleep?

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Inside PR #12 – Monday, June 19, 2006


So much for our 30-minute rule…we blew it out of the water this week, clocking in at 43 minutes before we close the show with a track from the new band Fair Ground. We had an embarrassment of riches with a lot of comments and feedback this week, so we got thrown off. We’ll tighten it up and get back to as close to 30 minutes as we can in future episodes. Hopefully the show notes will help you navigate to the parts that interest you the most.

Please keep the comments coming through the blog and don’t be shy about dropping us an audio comment (Waxmail works well) or regular e-mail to [email protected], or call our new comment line: 206-600-4741.

You can listen to the show with the player above or download or subscribe with the links in the show blog’s sidebar.

Show Notes:

0:28 Terry opens the show and notes the comment line is active and awaiting your calls. 206-600-4741

1:20 David talks about posting the audio comments to the blog as they are received as opposed to saving them up for the weekly podcast. What do the listeners think?

7:24 Tac Anderson audio comment about the necessity of PR people to know about and actually blog themselves. David and Terry discuss the value of learning about blogging and podcasting first-hand, but also recognize that it’s not realistic to expect that every PR person will or should become a blogger/podcaster themselves.

15:24 Joe Thornley calls with congratulations on our 10th podcast and summarizes his visits to the mesh, Counselor’s Academy and IABC conferences and notes the differences in interest in and uptake for social media at each. Joe blogged all three on ProPR.

19:02 Terry notes that the PRSA has started a blog…and called it For Immediate Release (whoops!)

20:43 Terry announces that comments from Mitch Joel and David Phillips are available on the Inside PR blog.

21:15 Terry references a string of e-mails that circulated among marketing and PR podcasters starting with Joe Jaffe who advised that he had nominated everyone for a Marketing Sherpa award. The e-mails were flying as discussions of a central blog to aggregate all the podcasts and a possible names for the group were floated.

23:03 Dave came up with an acronym for the group–iCAMP (International Communications and Marketing Podcasters), but Joe Jaffe’s CAPOW (Communications and Advertising Podcasters Of the World) is pure brilliance.

25:33 Dave mentions that Shel Holtz was to make sure that Donna Papacosta and Heidi Miller are included in CAPOW.

25:40 Dave talks about visiting Halifax, Nova Scotia to talk at the Atlantic Communications Forum on June 20/21. Dave will be presenting on social media and blogs.

26:38 Terry will be attending Podcasters Across Borders in Kingston, Ontario where he will also meet with CC Chapman to record our first mash-up.

27:38 Dave mentions that he has received a track from the band Fair Ground.
29:08 Terry and Dave discuss the bain of the agency person’s existence: billing our time/doing timesheets. We chat about fee-for-service, retainer, value-billing and coming in under-budget.

38:10 Dave introduces Chris Clarke’s weekly segment on his entry into the PR agency world. This week he talks about his first two-weeks at Thornley Fallis.

42:08 Dave closes the show and reminds the listeners to leave their comments on the Inside PR blog, via e-mail at [email protected] or by using the comment line at 206-600-4741.

42:34 Dave asks for feedback on the comments being posted on the blog and not exclusively on the podcast.

42:48 Dave introduces the Fair Ground track “Down In It.” Vote for it on their site if you like it.

Intro music: Our theme music is Streetwalker by CJacks and is from the Podsafe Music Network; Roger Dey is our announcer.

More audio comments for IPR 11

Mitch Joel and his thoughts on educating PR students on social media

Tac Anderson on our challenges with the comment line and his feelings that all PR pros should be blogging

David Phillips on the evolution of the Web and its impact on communications
(Select which comment you want to play from the links below by hitting “Play Now” and then hit play on the flash player.)


Audio comments: IPR 11

Thought I’d do a little forward-thinking test using the podPress plug-in on our WordPress blog. I figured there is no good reason that we should hold on to our audio comments that come in via Waxmail or through our comment line for the podcast. Why not post them as they come in?

So here’s one from Joe Thornley received following IPR 11:

The question then becomes do we still include them as part of the show for our listener community, or do we just point people to the blog to hear the comments they feel like listening to?

I’m trying to force myself to think about podcasts differently from weekly radio programs. Is it a show? Is it a program? Are Terry and I co-hosts with listeners, or are we co-facilitators to a community (a fantastic Holzism)? Does the date matter? Should we even discuss time-bound news given that the podcast lives forever and the story has already been told in real time in the blogosphere?

What do you, the listeners, er…, community think?